Comments on: Wage cut idea an attack on young http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/12/13/19389/ News And Views From The Left Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:50:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Graham http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/12/13/19389/comment-page-1/#comment-169792 Graham Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:12:27 +0000 http://leftnews.org/?p=19389#comment-169792 Stats Canada Study on minimum wage: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/studies-etudes/75-001/comm/5018829-eng.pdf "A sizeable proportion (28%) of minimum wage work- ers were aged 25 to 54, many of them women. For these individuals in their core working and peak earning years, minimum wage work is likely not a transitory phase." Minimum wage legislation affects many thousands of workers in Canada directly and many more indirectly. Most economists recognize the need for minimum wage and it is part of the group of policies to put a floor on downward pressures on wages that have a negative effect on the economy. Even the OECD supports minimum wage legislation when coupled with youth-focused employment programs. Stats Canada Study on minimum wage:

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/studies-etudes/75-001/comm/5018829-eng.pdf

“A sizeable proportion (28%) of minimum wage work- ers were aged 25 to 54, many of them women. For these individuals in their core working and peak earning years, minimum wage work is likely not a transitory phase.”

Minimum wage legislation affects many thousands of workers in Canada directly and many more indirectly. Most economists recognize the need for minimum wage and it is part of the group of policies to put a floor on downward pressures on wages that have a negative effect on the economy.

Even the OECD supports minimum wage legislation when coupled with youth-focused employment programs.

]]> By: alex_c http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/12/13/19389/comment-page-1/#comment-169783 alex_c Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:48:21 +0000 http://leftnews.org/?p=19389#comment-169783 One quarter of all wage earners in Manitoba work within $3.00 of the minimum wage. One quarter of all women work within $2.10 of the minimum wage. In Sweden, less than 1/20th of the population works at or below 2/3 of the median wage. Keeping a low minimum wage has been used to help drag down all wages. The neoliberal ear has been marked by sustained stagnating real wages, despite growing productivity. This means that the rate of exploitation has increased. Even if it were only youth making minimum wage (and it is not), I do not agree that age is a good reason to force people into low wage spheres. Youth incur costs, and will hopefully be heading for post-secondary training. No, age does not justify this. Accepting more intense exploitation of one sector based on race, gender, or age acts as an anchor dragging all wages down. There needs to be solidarity among all members of the working class. Divided we fall. Yes, there are many gadgets that are relatively inexpensive because of the super-exploitation of labour in the majority world (aka "developing world, Third World"). The mechanisms by which this exploitation has been increased, and the horrifying accounts of labour conditions does not make me lower my expectation. It has the opposite effect. This is why we need to extend solidarity to the International Working Class. The same was true here, but thanks to class struggle in unions, we managed to push wages up. I don't understand exactly what Wojtek is trying to achieve. Maybe he is earnestly confused and is looking for refutations of the hegemonic discourse. I could point you to books and journals that might help. Oh wait, just look at the side frame, that's exactly what this website does. So, the only conclusion I could draw as to why Wojtek would decide to troll this site make me rather sad for him. One quarter of all wage earners in Manitoba work within $3.00 of the minimum wage. One quarter of all women work within $2.10 of the minimum wage. In Sweden, less than 1/20th of the population works at or below 2/3 of the median wage. Keeping a low minimum wage has been used to help drag down all wages. The neoliberal ear has been marked by sustained stagnating real wages, despite growing productivity. This means that the rate of exploitation has increased.

Even if it were only youth making minimum wage (and it is not), I do not agree that age is a good reason to force people into low wage spheres. Youth incur costs, and will hopefully be heading for post-secondary training. No, age does not justify this. Accepting more intense exploitation of one sector based on race, gender, or age acts as an anchor dragging all wages down. There needs to be solidarity among all members of the working class. Divided we fall.

Yes, there are many gadgets that are relatively inexpensive because of the super-exploitation of labour in the majority world (aka “developing world, Third World”). The mechanisms by which this exploitation has been increased, and the horrifying accounts of labour conditions does not make me lower my expectation. It has the opposite effect. This is why we need to extend solidarity to the International Working Class. The same was true here, but thanks to class struggle in unions, we managed to push wages up.

I don’t understand exactly what Wojtek is trying to achieve. Maybe he is earnestly confused and is looking for refutations of the hegemonic discourse. I could point you to books and journals that might help. Oh wait, just look at the side frame, that’s exactly what this website does.

So, the only conclusion I could draw as to why Wojtek would decide to troll this site make me rather sad for him.

]]> By: J.A. Penn http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/12/13/19389/comment-page-1/#comment-169782 J.A. Penn Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:41:32 +0000 http://leftnews.org/?p=19389#comment-169782 You really don't have a clue about economics, do you? Take a course sometime, it's very enlightening. It will enable you to understand the articles we post. You really don’t have a clue about economics, do you? Take a course sometime, it’s very enlightening. It will enable you to understand the articles we post.

]]> By: Wojtek http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/12/13/19389/comment-page-1/#comment-169748 Wojtek Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:38:52 +0000 http://leftnews.org/?p=19389#comment-169748 And, on the real wage comparison: One hour of work now at the minimum buys you a device that can store and replay a thousand songs on a whim, exotic fruits in the middle of winter, a garment (at Ends, for example) that both repels water and is breathable, plus any number of a cornucopia of things that in 1976 were at the cusp of luxury. We live in a region of staggering wealth, even for those earning what we call little. It's a pity that so many have to travel so far some such horrid places to arrive here, but perhaps you all need to take a walk to your local chinese market with one day's minimum pay and report back whether you can even carry all the food and necessities you can purchase with that 'little' money. Any paper that even attempts to use the word 'real' when comparing wages four decades apart is naïve at best, and completely ludicrous the rest of the time. And, on the real wage comparison: One hour of work now at the minimum buys you a device that can store and replay a thousand songs on a whim, exotic fruits in the middle of winter, a garment (at Ends, for example) that both repels water and is breathable, plus any number of a cornucopia of things that in 1976 were at the cusp of luxury. We live in a region of staggering wealth, even for those earning what we call little. It’s a pity that so many have to travel so far some such horrid places to arrive here, but perhaps you all need to take a walk to your local chinese market with one day’s minimum pay and report back whether you can even carry all the food and necessities you can purchase with that ‘little’ money.

Any paper that even attempts to use the word ‘real’ when comparing wages four decades apart is naïve at best, and completely ludicrous the rest of the time.

]]> By: Wojtek http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/12/13/19389/comment-page-1/#comment-169747 Wojtek Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:23:53 +0000 http://leftnews.org/?p=19389#comment-169747 Geez, chill out. This isn't about people working to make a living, it's about high school kids having a weekend job where they can earn some cash for the pizza slices they buy during lunch. It's important to get some work experience while in school, and at a high minimum you're competing against people who need the money more, so you're unlikely to get the job, even though you could certainly use a few bucks to spend. I hire people, some of them grossly unskilled, but I'm not stupid, and I know I have to almost double the minimum for full time to have any chance at someone sticking around more than a week. If I was hiring teens to dust on the weekends then I'm sure both they and I would be happy at or below the minimum -- especially the kids around Reagent Park that are only a few blocks away from the office. As it stands, I don't hire them; a vacuum and some of my time are a cheaper alternative. And there's a cleaning company in the building that might charge me $100 a week for the task. Which, is still cheaper than taking an employee at a high minimum. So who wins? Me by not paying perfectly decent kids to do almost nothing for almost no money? Or them by not having snack money? Oh, wait, I get it, it's the vacuum manufacturers that win in this game. Silly me. Geez, chill out. This isn’t about people working to make a living, it’s about high school kids having a weekend job where they can earn some cash for the pizza slices they buy during lunch. It’s important to get some work experience while in school, and at a high minimum you’re competing against people who need the money more, so you’re unlikely to get the job, even though you could certainly use a few bucks to spend.

I hire people, some of them grossly unskilled, but I’m not stupid, and I know I have to almost double the minimum for full time to have any chance at someone sticking around more than a week. If I was hiring teens to dust on the weekends then I’m sure both they and I would be happy at or below the minimum — especially the kids around Reagent Park that are only a few blocks away from the office. As it stands, I don’t hire them; a vacuum and some of my time are a cheaper alternative. And there’s a cleaning company in the building that might charge me $100 a week for the task. Which, is still cheaper than taking an employee at a high minimum. So who wins? Me by not paying perfectly decent kids to do almost nothing for almost no money? Or them by not having snack money? Oh, wait, I get it, it’s the vacuum manufacturers that win in this game. Silly me.

]]> By: alex_c http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/12/13/19389/comment-page-1/#comment-169698 alex_c Sun, 13 Dec 2009 17:39:51 +0000 http://leftnews.org/?p=19389#comment-169698 The Real minimum wage in Saskatchewan as fallen 21% since 1976. The Real minimum wage in Saskatchewan as fallen 21% since 1976.

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