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	<title>Comments on: The Progressive Economics Forum » When in Doubt, Blame Unions</title>
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	<description>News And Views From The Left</description>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/07/01/17349/comment-page-1/#comment-156774</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Seriously? I am sure that it is available in your local public library. Or, is it that you are a grumpyalienatedlazyjerk?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously? I am sure that it is available in your local public library. Or, is it that you are a grumpyalienatedlazyjerk?</p>
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		<title>By: grumpyalientatedjerk</title>
		<link>http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/07/01/17349/comment-page-1/#comment-156773</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpyalientatedjerk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftnews.org/?p=17349#comment-156773</guid>
		<description>To bad “Economics for Everyone” is not published under a Free license and available on that web site as a PDF download. More like “Economics for Everyone (who can afford it)”.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To bad “Economics for Everyone” is not published under a Free license and available on that web site as a PDF download. More like “Economics for Everyone (who can afford it)”.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/07/01/17349/comment-page-1/#comment-156627</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftnews.org/?p=17349#comment-156627</guid>
		<description>Funny you should mention Venezuela with regard to community-level discussion groups.  I was just in Caracas for the &quot;Second Latin American Meeting of Worker-Recovered Factories&quot; -- and the meeting hall was provided by the Venezuelan government.  It was a fantastic meeting with workers from lots of countries across Latin America and from factories in Venezuela like Vivex, Inveval and Mitsubishi.  For Spanish readers, there is report and pictures from the opening session here: http://www.marxist.com/apertura-segundo-encuentro-empresas-recuperadas.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny you should mention Venezuela with regard to community-level discussion groups.  I was just in Caracas for the &#8220;Second Latin American Meeting of Worker-Recovered Factories&#8221; &#8212; and the meeting hall was provided by the Venezuelan government.  It was a fantastic meeting with workers from lots of countries across Latin America and from factories in Venezuela like Vivex, Inveval and Mitsubishi.  For Spanish readers, there is report and pictures from the opening session here: <a href="http://www.marxist.com/apertura-segundo-encuentro-empresas-recuperadas.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.marxist.com/apertura-segundo-encuentro-empresas-recuperadas.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/07/01/17349/comment-page-1/#comment-156626</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftnews.org/?p=17349#comment-156626</guid>
		<description>Indeed. I should have been more clear. When I suggested that there is no demand for reasoned analysis, I should have said that there is a greater return for the corporate press to print reactionary bullshit than reasoned analysis. It is easier to sell ads to corporations when one is being reactionary than when writing things like ``the contradiction in the capitalist system that are the problem and people should unionize and mobilise for public, democratic control over the commanding heights of the economy&quot; or something to that effect.

Either-way, I think that a more effective way to educate people is to organise ``schools&quot; and community-level discussion groups. There are resources out there for unionists and working people to organize these including a resource by Jim Stanford and his ``Economics for Everyone&quot; book and lesson plans: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.economicsforeveryone.ca/lesson_plans&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. (I am sure that there are other resources, but Stanford&#039;s is not that bad/)

Similar schools have been used to great effect in Venezuela, though they have the benefit of funding from the community and the federal government ``missions&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed. I should have been more clear. When I suggested that there is no demand for reasoned analysis, I should have said that there is a greater return for the corporate press to print reactionary bullshit than reasoned analysis. It is easier to sell ads to corporations when one is being reactionary than when writing things like &#8220;the contradiction in the capitalist system that are the problem and people should unionize and mobilise for public, democratic control over the commanding heights of the economy&#8221; or something to that effect.</p>
<p>Either-way, I think that a more effective way to educate people is to organise &#8220;schools&#8221; and community-level discussion groups. There are resources out there for unionists and working people to organize these including a resource by Jim Stanford and his &#8220;Economics for Everyone&#8221; book and lesson plans: <a href="http://www.economicsforeveryone.ca/lesson_plans" rel="nofollow">here</a>. (I am sure that there are other resources, but Stanford&#8217;s is not that bad/)</p>
<p>Similar schools have been used to great effect in Venezuela, though they have the benefit of funding from the community and the federal government &#8220;missions&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://leftnews.org/archives/2009/07/01/17349/comment-page-1/#comment-156621</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftnews.org/?p=17349#comment-156621</guid>
		<description>Graham: I didn&#039;t read the article, but good points re. the role of unions in the recession and the need to educate labour activists about the economic crisis. There is definitely not much clarity on the issue.  I think that even some labour leaders have accepted somewhat the idea that unions are part of the problem.  The CLC is putting on a labour college to help start to solve this problem, though admittedly I do not know what economic perspectives will be taught there.  http://www.labourcollege.ca/

Anyway, if we understand the crisis as being caused by an over-accumulation of capital relative to what can be put to use profitably, then unions clearly aren&#039;t responsible.  The process is internal to the process of capitalist accumulation.  But the only way to come out of the crisis on a capitalist basis will be through a destruction of capital, either through war or massive devaluation of existing fixed and circulating capital; and of course through an accompanying attack on workers, incl. unions.

But I&#039;m not as skeptical as you when it comes to selling reasoned analysis.  I think people would buy reasoned analysis, if only it were available!  Especially nowadays with the crisis, working people are hungry for ideas.  Unfortunately, capitalist pull the strings of the mainstream media!  This is one of the purposes behind building &quot;Fightback&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham: I didn&#8217;t read the article, but good points re. the role of unions in the recession and the need to educate labour activists about the economic crisis. There is definitely not much clarity on the issue.  I think that even some labour leaders have accepted somewhat the idea that unions are part of the problem.  The CLC is putting on a labour college to help start to solve this problem, though admittedly I do not know what economic perspectives will be taught there.  <a href="http://www.labourcollege.ca/" rel="nofollow">http://www.labourcollege.ca/</a></p>
<p>Anyway, if we understand the crisis as being caused by an over-accumulation of capital relative to what can be put to use profitably, then unions clearly aren&#8217;t responsible.  The process is internal to the process of capitalist accumulation.  But the only way to come out of the crisis on a capitalist basis will be through a destruction of capital, either through war or massive devaluation of existing fixed and circulating capital; and of course through an accompanying attack on workers, incl. unions.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m not as skeptical as you when it comes to selling reasoned analysis.  I think people would buy reasoned analysis, if only it were available!  Especially nowadays with the crisis, working people are hungry for ideas.  Unfortunately, capitalist pull the strings of the mainstream media!  This is one of the purposes behind building &#8220;Fightback&#8221;.</p>
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